Israelisches Völkermord-Urteil? US-Israel wird den Krieg gegen Palästina und Jemen verlieren
Deutsche Übersetzung
0:01
Wir brauchen ein neues System, wir brauchen eine neue Gesellschaft, wir müssen das einfordern, was
0:06
noch vor wenigen Wochen unmöglich geklungen haben, aber nicht nur realisierbar, sondern auch
0:12
Imperativ
0:19
[Musik] Notwendigkeit des Internationalen Gerichtshofes
0:27
Gericht, das die mündlichen Argumente und die schriftlichen Argumente Südafrikas anhörte, in denen die Auffassung vertreten wurde, dass
0:34
Völkermord in Gaza begangen hat, hat angekündigt, dass sie ihre Entscheidung am Freitag, den 26. Januar, begrüßen werden
0:43
zur dieswöchigen Folge der sozialistischen Sendung Ich bin dein Gastgeber Brian Becker heute sprechen wir mit VJ Prashad, er ist der
0:50
Geschäftsführer des Tricontinental Institute for Social Research Er ist Chefredakteur von Leftward Books
0:58
produktiver Autor und jüngster Veröffentlichung eines neuen Buches mit Nome Chomsky mit dem Titel The withdrawal Iraq Libya
1:06
Afghanistan in der Zerbrechlichkeit der US-Macht VJ Pasad willkommen
1:12
zurück vielen Dank Brian, es ist toll, wie immer bei dir zu sein, vielen Dank, äh
1:17
Kurz bevor wir heute mit unserem Programm begonnen haben, kam die Ankündigung, dass der IGH
1:23
wird am Freitag entscheiden, äh der IGH ist die primäre Judikative der Vereinigten Staaten
1:29
Die Südafrikaner machten einen dramatischen Fall, einen 84-seitigen Schriftsatz
1:36
Dokumentation, dass die Israelis die Absicht haben, Völkermord zu begehen, indem sie die Aussagen israelischer Beamter
1:44
und Militär die Absicht, Völkermord zu begehen, sowie die Methoden und die Anwendung militärischer Gewalt,
1:51
Sie begehen in der Tat Völkermord, zuallererst äh, lass uns über die
1:56
Bedeutung dieses Antrags Südafrikas für den IGH
2:01
Erwarten und was ist der Prozess, wenn der IGH um sich bewegt, um äh zu halten oder äh zu geben
2:08
Südafrika und seine wichtigste Forderung, die auf ein sofortiges Ende der
2:13
die Kämpfe in Gaza Brian, es ist wirklich wichtig, damit zu beginnen, den Menschen zu erklären, dass
2:21
es gibt zwei wichtige internationale Gerichte, die in diesem Teil der Niederlande ziemlich nahe beieinander liegen
2:29
Europas ist einer davon der Internationale Strafgerichtshof, der auf der Grundlage des römischen
2:35
Der Internationale Strafgerichtshof ist dazu bestimmt, Einzelpersonen zu verfolgen, die der Sonderankläger
2:43
diesem Gericht wird die Befugnis erteilt, Einzelpersonen anzuklagen und
2:50
Individuen für Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit, Völkermord und so weiter zur Rechenschaft zu ziehen, das ist die
2:56
Internationaler Strafgerichtshof und die Südafrikaner brachten ihren Fall vor die
3:02
Internationalen Gerichtshofs, einem viel älteren Gerichtshof, der 1948 gegründet wurde,
3:08
Gericht, dem 15 Richter angehören, die vom UN-Sicherheitsrat ernannt werden,
3:14
Unterschied zwischen dem Internationalen Strafgerichtshof und dem Internationalen Gerichtshof besteht darin, dass der Gerichtshof
3:21
Justiz ist ein Gericht, bei dem die Mitgliedstaaten der Vereinten Nationen
3:26
Machen Sie einen Streit äh vor Richtern ist gegen einen anderen Staat, dies ist ein
3:32
zwischenstaatliches Gericht, kein Gericht, bei dem ein Staatsanwalt Einzelpersonen anklagen kann,
3:38
sehr selten, dass ein Land des globalen Südens äh in die internationale
3:44
Gerichtshof mit einem so schlagkräftigen Fall gegen einen anderen Mitgliedstaat der
3:49
UNO, die vom Westen voll unterstützt wird, haben wir diese Art von
3:56
Etwas, das passiert ist, bevor man sich vorstellt, dass ein früherer Fall der Fall gegen war
4:01
Myanmar, aber Sie wissen, dass Myanmar kein Land ist, das von einer westlichen Regierung unterstützt wird
4:07
Es ist in der Tat, äh, seine Aktivitäten gegen die Rohinga waren sehr
4:12
verleumdet auch im Westen und zu Recht so entsetzliche Behandlung des Rohinga-Volkes, aber damals war der Westen
4:20
Wurde den Streit vor dem Internationalen Gerichtshof unterstützt, ist dies
4:25
Einer der ersten Fälle, an die ich mich erinnere, in dem ein glob GL South Country von anderen
4:32
Länder des Globalen Südens, und sie sind nicht nur Länder des Globalen Südens, sondern auch des Südens
4:37
Afrika ist kein mehrheitlich muslimischer Staat, also kann man nicht sagen, dass dies mit etwas zu tun hat, das eng mit Ihnen zu tun hat
4:44
Islam oder oder oder dass dies mit Solidarität mit Muslimen in in zu tun hat
4:50
Gaza, nein, nein, das ist ein politischer Fall, die Südafrikaner haben eine Geschichte seit 1948
4:57
bis 1994 des Lebens unter direktem Apide verstehen sie, was Apide ist, die sie haben
5:04
Die letzten 30 Jahre, seit sie Apide beendet haben, haben sie sich schon lange Sorgen gemacht,
5:10
besorgt über die Lage der Palästinenser unter israelischer Herrschaft
5:16
besetzten palästinensischen Gebieten sowie innerhalb des Israels von 1948, so dass die Tatsache
5:22
dass Südafrika diesen Fall vor den Internationalen Gerichtshof gebracht hat,
5:28
Tatsache, dass es von einer Reihe von Ländern, einschließlich Ländern in lateinischer Sprache,
5:33
Amerika ist etwas, das ich bemerkenswert finde, das 15-köpfige Richtergremium plus Richter und ein Richter
5:40
aus Israel hat ein Richter aus Südafrika, wie Sie sagten, dieses bemerkenswerte 84-seitige Dokument überprüft, das
5:49
Dokumente die Behauptung des Völkermords Israel war nicht wirklich in der Lage, diese Behauptung zu beantworten
5:55
am Freitag, wenn die Richter zurückkommen und die die Kommentare dazu abgeben
6:02
ist zu hoffen, dass sie vorläufige Maßnahmen vorantreiben werden, die die Laufzeit der
6:08
Einstweilige Maßnahmen und einstweilige Maßnahmen, die die
6:13
Die Südafrikaner haben, wie Sie sagten, einen sofortigen Waffenstillstand gefordert
6:19
Es ist wichtig, dass die Menschen erkennen, dass diese Gerichtsentscheidung IS ist
6:24
bindend ist es keine Entscheidung, gegen die Berufung eingelegt werden kann, das ist es, wenn sie sagen
6:30
Provisorische Maßnahmen: Die Kämpfe müssen aufhören Israel muss die Bombardierungen beenden
6:35
Israel muss das Bombardement beenden, die Frage stellt sich Brian, wer das tun wird
6:40
Vollstreckung dieser gerichtlichen Entscheidung und daher wird das UM-Anhörungsdokument
6:47
Wenden Sie sich an den UN-Sicherheitsrat, und es obliegt der UN-Sicherheitsbehörde,
6:53
Der Rat, um dieses Urteil durchzusetzen, wird eine Menge Druck ausüben
6:58
Brian über die US-Regierung: Die Vereinigten Staaten werden nicht den Raum haben, ein Veto gegen irgendetwas einzulegen, es ist kein UN-Sicherheitsrat
7:06
Resolution Dies ist ein bindendes Urteil des Internationalen Gerichtshofs
7:12
Justiz, die den Sicherheitsrat und die Vereinten Nationen auffordert, die
7:18
Vorläufige Maßnahmen, das ist nicht, äh, sie aufzufordern, eine Resolution zu formulieren, es gibt keinen Raum für ein Veto, wie wird
7:25
Israel wird darauf reagieren, werden sie die Kämpfe einstellen, wie werden die Vereinigten Staaten
7:30
Reagieren Sie darauf, werden sie die Vollstreckung des Urteils zulassen, wenn das Urteil tatsächlich am Freitag sagt, dass die
7:38
Israelische Bombardements müssen diese offenen Fragen aufgreifen, die wir
7:43
ähm, zurück vielleicht nächste Woche, wenn klarer ist, wie sie reagieren, was erstens, was
7:48
und dann, wie Israel und insbesondere die Vereinigten Staaten darauf reagieren,
7:54
Es ist richtig, das hatte Benjamin Netanjahu, der Premierminister Israels, trotzdem gesagt
8:00
Von dem, was in der HA passiert, bedeutet vor dem Internationalen Gerichtshof, dass dieser Krieg weitergehen wird, wir werden gehen
8:06
Und ihr wisst schon, äh VJ, in den letzten Tagen gab es eine große Ankündigung
8:11
21 oder 22 israelische Soldaten wurden auf einmal getötet und
8:18
Das wurde wie eine große Nachrichtenmeldung betrachtet, äh, die viele widersprüchliche
8:24
Emotionen innerhalb des israelischen politischen Körpers, äh, wir haben wieder 2 5.000
8:30
Palästinenser wurden seit dem 27. Oktober getötet und es sind wahrscheinlich viel mehr als das und 90% der Bevölkerung
8:38
oder vielleicht sind es 85% wurden vertrieben, sie können nicht leben
8:43
in ihren Häusern, weil ihre Häuser bombardiert und zerstört oder schwer beschädigt wurden, so dass sie rennen, sie fliehen, aber in Wirklichkeit gibt es
8:50
nirgendwo, um sich zu verstecken, äh, diese Soldaten wurden getötet, weil sie sich darauf vorbereiteten,
8:55
Gebäude zu zerstören, legten sie Sprengstoff um das Gebäude herum und irgendein palästinensischer Kämpfer traf einen
9:03
Panzer in der Nähe anscheinend mit einer Raketenwerfer und so
9:08
Sprengstoff explodierte, als sie noch da waren, aber wenn man bedenkt, dass das israelische Militär
9:15
Gebäude in die Luft jagen und sagen, oh, das ist Notwehr, ich meine, wie ist das
9:21
kein Völkermord und inwiefern ist das kein Kriegsverbrechen im Sinne des Völkermords?
9:26
Konvention und anderes Völkerrecht, das für Kriegsverbrechen spricht, nun, erstens, denke ich,
9:33
Netanjahus Erklärung, dass sie ihren völkermörderischen Krieg fortsetzen werden, unabhängig von der internationalen
9:40
Das Urteil des Gerichtshofs ist ein Hinweis darauf, dass sich die Israelis auf die
9:46
internationalen Gerichtshofs, einstweilige Maßnahmen vorzuschlagen und ein Feuer zu fordern, halte ich für ein
9:53
aber jetzt ist es wichtig zu erkennen, was in Israel innerhalb Israels passiert, Brian, ich meine, ich denke, ähm
10:00
In Israel zeigen Umfragen, dass die Israelis nicht wissen wollen, was in Gaza passiert, sie wollen es einfach nicht
10:07
Zu wissen, dass es eine Erkenntnis gibt, dass dieses Bombardement entsetzlich, völkermörderisch war
10:13
und so weiter gadii Eisen cot, ehemaliger Chef der israelischen Verteidigungsstreitkräfte, jetzt von
10:20
der Opposition in Israel, sagte ein Mitglied von Netanjahus Kriegskabinett
10:28
Channel Channel 12 sagte letzte Woche, dass Herr Netanjahu das Vertrauen der
10:34
Ich fand es sehr interessant, dass Herr Eisen Cott das gemacht hat
10:41
Aussage: Ähm, im Moment, an diesem Punkt, fällt es Netan schwer, die Balance zu finden
10:47
seine Koalition, äh, es gibt jetzt zum ersten Mal einen internen Abstieg in Israel
10:53
um diesen Krieg ähm, ich möchte nur etwas in Klammern sagen, dass es ein
10:58
Ich bin wenig enttäuscht, als ich hörte, wie der saudische Außenminister in Davos
11:04
in einer Zeit, in der Israel in diesen Fragen gewissermaßen unter Druck steht
11:09
vom Internationalen Gerichtshof hat das israelische Militär entschieden, dass sie nun die dritte Phase
11:16
Ich weiß, dass dies ein wichtiges Eingeständnis des israelischen Militärs ist, ähm
11:22
Dass sie nicht in der Lage sind, ihre Ziele in Phase drei voranzubringen, bedeutet übrigens, dass sie viele der
11:28
Truppen von G und nur auf Überfallmissionen gehen, denke ich, dass der Tod dieser 21
11:33
Soldaten hat die israelischen Streitkräfte erschüttert, die sie jetzt in die dritte Phase versetzen
11:38
in dieser Zeit, in der Israel auf der internationalen Bühne ziemlich geschwächt ist und nicht in der Lage ist, seinen Krieg tatsächlich fortzusetzen
11:45
Ziele Jenseits der Massenvernichtung in Gaza mussten sie ihre Truppen abziehen und
11:50
Zu dieser Zeit gibt der saudische Außenminister in Davos auf dem Weltwirtschaftsforum eine Erklärung ab, in der er sagt: Hört zu
11:58
ähm, wir sind bereit, uns mit Israel zu normalisieren, wenn sie einen sofortigen Waffenstillstand einhalten, meine ich, das auf der Grundlage der
12:05
Tabelle erscheint mir als außerordentlich aufschlussreich für die
12:10
Oberflächlichkeit der Saudis, wenn es um ihre Unterstützung für die Palästinenser geht, die Tatsache, dass er eine Bemerkung wie
12:17
Dies in einem Kontext, in dem es so aussieht, als ob der Druck auf Israel, eine
12:23
Der Waffenstillstand wird enorm sein, und wenn es auch Druck geben könnte, Brian zu verhindern, was die israelische
12:30
Beamte nennen die Gaza-Nakba oder die zweite Nakba, was so viel bedeutet wie "
12:35
Die Auslöschung der palästinensischen Präsenz in Gaza zu dieser Zeit für die Saudis
12:41
Diese Bemerkung hielt ich für äußerst wenig hilfreich für die Sache der Palästinenser
12:47
Gerechtigkeit ähm, was auch immer der Internationale Strafgerichtshof entscheidet, wie auch immer sie entscheiden
12:52
höchstwahrscheinlich werden sie für vorläufige Maßnahmen entscheiden, ähm, es ist außergewöhnlich, wie die südafrikanische ANS
12:59
habe den Kuschel angehoben und ich möchte das erkennen, weil ich das sehr
13:04
als Teil einer neuen Stimmung im globalen Süden, ähm, die Südafrikaner nicht nur
13:09
brachte dies vor Gericht, aber dann hat die Regierung Deutschlands, die ihre, wie Sie wissen, eigene Geschichte hat.
13:16
Völkermord in Europa, die Massentötung von Juden, ähm, ihr wisst schon, Roma, und
13:23
In anderen Ländern Europas gaben die Deutschen dann eine öffentliche Erklärung ab, in der sie sagten: Nein, nein, wir unterstützen Israel, es gibt keinen Völkermord
13:30
Und Sie kennen zu diesem Zeitpunkt jemanden, den ich schon eine Weile kenne, Herrn Ha Gan Bob, den Präsidenten der
13:39
Namibia hat eine sehr kraftvolle Erklärung veröffentlicht, und ich denke, die Menschen müssen erkennen, dass Namibia kein
13:46
Sehr starkes UH-Land in der Weltpolitik, es steht vor seinen eigenen Herausforderungen, seit UH
13:53
Südwestafrika gewann seine Unabhängigkeit und wurde Namibia, es stand vor vielen Herausforderungen, die der Präsident von
13:59
Namibia Herr Gango veröffentlichte eine Erklärung, in der er sich direkt an die Deutschen wandte
14:04
Wir akzeptieren deine Aussage über Israel und das, was in Israel passiert, nicht.
14:10
Gaza und wir akzeptieren es nicht, weil wir nicht glauben, dass Sie legitim sind, wenn es darum geht, über Völkermord und Völkermord zu sprechen.
14:17
Anstatt über den Holocaust zu sprechen, was sie sehr wohl hätten tun können, erinnerten sie die Welt daran, dass zwischen
14:23
194 und 198 führten die Deutschen einen Völkermord durch
14:28
gegen das Herrero- und Namika-Volk im damaligen Südwestafrika
14:34
Namibia und erinnerte die Welt an diesen Völkermord und sagte, ihr kennt Länder wie
14:39
Deutschland sollte sich nicht auf Spekulationen einlassen, wenn es um Dinge wie Völkermord geht, wir wissen es besser, und ich denke,
14:46
Das ist eine sehr interessante Entwicklung in der Weltpolitik, wo der Süden sagt, wir haben mehr Legitimität, wenn er
14:53
Völkermord, Massentötungen und Verbrechen gegen
14:58
Die Menschheit, weil wir ihre Opfer sind, yeah, so wichtig, äh, ich bin so froh
15:05
Sie erwähnten Namibia, BJ und natürlich Namibia oder das, was damals Southwest hieß
15:11
Afrika wurde eine deutsche Kolonie als Folge einer
15:17
1884 in Berlin, wo alle Kolonisatoren, die Imperialisten, die
15:23
kapitalistischen Großmächten Westeuropas und der USA als Beobachter anwesend waren, beschlossen sie, Afrika aufzuteilen
15:31
und sie teilten Afrika und innerhalb von 18 Jahren die gesamte afrikanische Selbstverwaltung mit
15:37
die Ausnahme Äthiopiens verschwand in 18 Jahren, ich meine die vollständige Kolonisierung
15:42
Afrikas und es gab viele Massaker, viele Zerstörungen
15:47
Völker durch alle möglichen Maßstäbe und ihr wisst es, wenn ihr an Palästina und
15:52
Denken Sie an all die Länder des Nahen Ostens, zu denen sie auch gehörten, die Teil der Kolonialzeit waren
16:00
Zuerst eine friedliche Teilung vor 1914 und dann eine gewaltsame Teilung
16:06
oder Neuaufteilung nach Beginn des Ersten Weltkriegs, aber das ist das Ich bin so froh
16:11
du hast es so formuliert, VJ, weil es einen Grund gibt, warum Palästina die Unterstützung der Menschen in Namibia hat und
16:18
Südafrika und all die äh Länder und Völker des globalen Südens, weil
16:23
Sie sind das kolonisierte Volk, und das ist kein Kampf, der 180 Jahre begann
16:30
in 20 am 7. Oktober und es ist nicht wirklich ein 1948 mit dem
16:36
Es ist die Geschichte des Kolonialismus als vielleicht das dominierende Thema für die
16:42
Mehrheit der Menschen auf dem Planeten, äh, und nochmals, die USA haben immer Proxys verwendet
16:48
Kräfte wie das saudische Königshaus und andere im globalen Süden, äh, es gibt
16:53
Spannungen, ja, aber sie regieren durch eine Reihe von verschiedenen Mitteln, aber einschließlich
16:59
mit Proxy- oder Komprador-Bisi im globalen Süden, in den kolonisierten oder
17:05
kolonisierte Teile der Welt, aber dies ist eine epische Schlacht und man weiß, wenn man darüber nachdenkt, was sich in der Welt verändert hat
17:12
Die Palästinenser haben gesagt, wir werden nicht verschwinden, wir werden uns dadurch nicht auslöschen lassen
17:19
kolonialen Prozess, wissen Sie, Benjamin äh Netanjahu war bei den Vereinten Nationen, zwei
17:25
Wochen vor dem 7. Oktober, und ich möchte, dass wir etwas Boll davon haben, es ist ein er
17:30
eine Karte zu zeigen und Saudi-Arabien einzuschließen, das ist einer der Gründe, warum ich denke,
17:35
Es ist wichtig zu bemerken, weil Netanjahu zeigt, dass wir jetzt Frieden haben
17:41
mit all diesen verschiedenen arabischen Ländern haben wir Frieden mit Ägypten, wir werden Frieden mit Saudi-Arabien haben
17:48
weil Saudi-Arabien kurz davor stand, sich zu normalisieren und eine diplomatische
17:53
Beziehungen, normale Beziehungen mit dem Staat Israel, äh und wenn Sie, wenn Sie sich das ansehen,
17:59
Karte genau VJ es gibt keinen Gaza, es gibt keinen Westen
18:05
Bank, es ist ein kompletter Radiergummi des palästinensischen Volkes, das waren zwei Wochen
18:11
vor dem 7. Oktober dieses koloniale Projekt, bei dem die indigenen Völker die indigenen Einwohner, die
18:18
seit Tausenden von Jahren dort gelebt haben, werden ausgelöscht, weil es im Interesse der Kolonialmächte ist und was
18:26
Am 7. Oktober sagten die Palästinenser, nein, ihr werdet uns nicht auslöschen, äh, wir sind hier und wenn ihr schaut
18:35
über das, was in den letzten vier Monaten passiert ist, den Fall Südafrika, die globale Protestbewegung, die Äußerungen der
18:41
Länder wie Namibia, äh, es hat Palästina zurück zu den Vieren gebracht, also wisst ihr, was ist
18:48
die Palästinenser sollen lautlos ausgelöscht werden, leise untergehen, einfach sein
18:55
Sie wissen, dass es entweder einen kulturellen Genozid oder eine komplette Di-Diaspora oder eine tatsächliche
19:00
physischen Völkermord ohne Kampf oder Willen und sollten sie kämpfen, und Palästina hat es mit allen Mitteln deutlich gemacht,
19:07
Methoden, die nicht gelöscht werden, werden sie behalten
19:12
Kämpfen, ja, ich meine, schauen Sie ehrlich gesagt, ähm, Herr Netanjahu und andere hohe Beamte, äh
19:19
Ich habe schon sehr lange gesagt, dass es so etwas wie Palästina nicht gibt, ihr wisst schon, diese Weigerung, die Palästina zu akzeptieren.
19:27
Existenz eines palästinensischen Staates, mit anderen Worten, die Osloer
19:33
Abkommen als etwas, das in der israelischen Politik verwurzelt sein muss, wisst ihr seither
19:40
1994, als das Oslo-Abkommen auf dem Tisch lag, haben die Israelis es verletzt
19:45
Sie haben es nie ernst genommen, weißt du, Brian, ich kam in deine Show und wir sprachen über diesen Slogan von The River
19:51
To The Sea ähm und die Leute sind sehr verärgert darüber und sie denken, dass das gut bedeutet
19:56
dass, ähm, diejenigen, die den Slogan verwenden, über die Auslöschung Israels sprechen, nun, interessanterweise ist dieser Slogan
20:04
in den Karten und Erklärungen hoher israelischer Beamter, aber sie
20:10
see from The River To The Sea as part of irat Israel greater Israel there's no
20:16
need to have the Palestinians anywhere in fact when people in the Palestinian movement sa from The River To The Sea
20:23
what they are often referring to and not always I'll grant you that there are people who have ideas I don't agree with
20:29
but they're often talking about the founding of a state project which is neither a Jewish State nor a Palestinian
20:37
state but a Democratic Republic of all peoples who live in that territory I
20:43
think most people are of that view what is sometimes in shorthand called a one- state solution I mean genuinely uh uh
20:51
genuine sincere look at the statements made by Mr Netanyahu just Mr Netanyahu
20:57
in his la long career in Israeli politics will show you that he has never
21:03
regarded it it as an available possibility to have a Palestinian State
21:09
the Erasure of Gaza is something has been on the map for a long time the
21:14
Israeli state project has already Incorporated large parts of East Jerusalem it's difficult to find in East
21:21
Jerusalem even the old cemeteries um some of the old cemeteries have been bulldozed and made into parking lots the
21:29
famous cemetery that has the khalidi family Graves was basically erased and made into a parking lot now West Bank I
21:37
mean people are aware already of the illegal settlement project and so on the
21:42
two-state solution is something the Israeli government has never accepted and so now for Mr netan to say once
21:49
again we reject the two-state solution shouldn't provoke surprise this is
21:54
precisely the logic of um the Li good party certainly Mr netanyahu's
22:01
right-wing Partners but I think also part of the Israeli state project because a lot of this stuff is financed
22:08
by the Israeli State including um the the labor party also is is participating
22:13
in this so I mean I feel like if people are surprised by some of this stuff they
22:19
shouldn't be and those who are upset about the slogan from The River To The
22:24
Sea you should be upset about the annexation mentality that is there in among Israeli
22:31
High officials documented in the 84 page statement made before the international
22:38
court of justice just go and read those pages uh that are available at the
22:43
international Court of Justice website and you will see statement after statement essentially saying that the
22:50
Palestinians have to be remove that is a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention under the um the the idea of
22:58
of population transfer it's a war crime you will see use of language like human
23:04
animals Savages and so on dehumanizing language used by not Fringe writing
23:11
elements you know Brian we are used to Fringe rightwing elements using this sort of language these are high
23:17
officials of the government including the president of Israel Isaac Herzog
23:23
Isaac Herzog was photographed signing his name to bombs that were used to drop
23:30
on residential areas in Gaza Mr Herzog was then welcomed at the world economic
23:37
Forum as a legitimate um you know world leader Mr Herzog should soon be too
23:42
scared to travel why because there should be using Universal jurisdiction a
23:48
warrant for his arrest for war crimes against the Palestinians if the icj
23:54
provisional measures comes out I am sure there will be a lot of pressure Brian on
24:00
the international criminal court to file individual warrants against people like
24:06
Isaac Herzog and I am sure a judge somebody like baralu G garon in Spain is
24:13
going to use Universal jurisdiction to file um a some sort of you know Interpol
24:19
warrant for the arrest of people like Isaac Herzog Benjamin Netanyahu and all
24:24
the people the high officials who've been involved at least in this war
24:30
against the Palestinians uh there's precedent for that as well VJ uh you know Pinos the
24:38
military dictator in Chile um thought he had impunity but
24:44
actually this same concept and principle was applied and he was arrested while traveling Donald Rumsfeld after the Iraq
24:51
War had to restrict his travel because uh courts in Europe were you know eager
24:58
to prosecute uh American officials for war crimes against the people of Iraq I
25:05
mean it's not actually a small thing so when we look at what's going on you see
25:12
uh VJ and this is what we talked about in our last show that uh there's an attempt to caricature
25:19
demonize and and and sort of cast those advocating Palestinian Liberation as
25:25
advocates of genocide and then River to the sea has been
25:31
demonized on college campuses and student groups are being shut down because they're chanting from The River
25:36
To The Sea Palestine will be free the leud party and Benjamin Netanyahu is the
25:42
leader of the leud party they have that same slogan in their Manifesto from 1977
25:49
their intention was to take all of Palestine as you as you said we're
25:55
reaching this climax I feel like we're reaching a climax Netanyahu is been fully embraced by by
26:03
Biden and I think Biden we we thought or I certainly thought a month or two ago
26:09
that the US because Israel was becoming so globally isolated that the US would
26:14
sort of restrain Israel or tell them to stop I thought that might happen and
26:20
that a deal could be worked out some sort of deal either a long-term deal or an interim deal but Netanyahu knows his
26:27
political career is at stake he can't the prolongation of the war is actually in his interest and I think the US has
26:34
come to the conclusion and I want to get your thoughts on this I think Biden has come to the conclusion that if Israel
26:41
could actually win if they could win if they could
26:46
be even if all of Gaza is destroyed if they could militarily free at least some
26:52
of the hostages and kill the Hamas leadership uh then they will have some
26:59
trophies and they can say mission accomplished as George W bush said when
27:04
he got on that aircraft carrier after the fall of Baghdad in 2003 I think
27:09
Biden is all in on the genocide because they think the only way that this can be
27:15
justified from a political point of view not a moral point of view not an ethical point of view because there is no
27:21
justification but from a narrow political point of view is if the Israelis can win so-called win whatever
27:28
that means but they can only win with genocide anyway I want to get your
27:34
thoughts yeah I mean I think that the United States has to really introspect
27:40
at least the the leading officials of the United States the ruling Elites have
27:45
to really introspect I mean when is the last time Brian the United States has
27:51
actually won a war in terms of political objectives um you know you mentioned the
27:57
book I did with with chsky uh it's called the withdrawal for good reason um
28:02
the United States went into Afghanistan with the aim of eradicating the Taliban
28:08
um making um you know Afghanistan safe from any kind of threat well 20 years
28:14
later the United States was defeated by the Taliban United States had to leave didn't gain political objective there
28:22
then the United States enters Iraq in 2003 an illegal War not sanctioned by
28:27
the United Nations Award of aggression against the Iraqi people hence the war crimes and questions of universal
28:34
jurisdiction against George W bush um you know against Donald ramsfeld and so on um well then again you know almost a
28:42
decade later it didn't take 20 years the United States discovered little more
28:47
than a decade later that well they had to leave and in fact they found that Iranian influence in Bagdad had
28:54
increased not US influence um and now uh the United States sitting in Northern
29:00
Iraq in fact in a way colonizing Kurdistan there are also Israeli troop
29:05
presence there in Northern Iraq um you know they are being called upon by the Iraqi government and in fact this
29:12
statement reiterated at Davos um by the Iraqi prime minister saying well you
29:18
know the US must now remove troops from all Iraq territory so much for attaining
29:24
any War AIMS in Iraq and then let's move on to Libya 2011 United States with
29:30
France under the cover of NATO bombs that country destroys the State murders
29:36
mamar Al Gaddafi and then leaves what chaos there are at least two governments
29:41
sitting in Libya no real war aims cons achieved because Libyan oil is now still
29:47
offline for Europe part of the reason why Europe is struggling to survive part
29:53
of the reason why Europe became more energy dependent on Russia as it turned out um the United States is a very poor
30:00
judge of what victory is and you already referenced George W Bush's V mission
30:05
accomplished moment very poor judge of victory in this case you know people
30:12
need to reflect if you're going to back the Israeli uh position Mr Net's War
30:17
cabinet all the way to victory victory means completion of the genocide that's
30:23
what victory means I mean you know Hamas as an organization this the Islamic
30:29
resistance movement the acronym is Hamas Hamas was only founded in
30:35
1987 Hamas was not there in 1948 the Hamas was not there during the uprising
30:41
of 1936 um there has been a Palestinian resistance movement that long preceded
30:48
Hamas and there will be a Palestinian resistance movement that comes even if
30:53
Hamas is as it were destroyed now um because unless there is Justice for the
30:59
Palestinians that resistance movement is going to continue it will germinate
31:04
somewhere it's already restive in the camps in Jordan restive in the camps in
31:11
Lebanon you're not going to be able to control this right now 25 26,000
31:17
Palestinians have been killed that still leaves several million Palestinians in
31:22
Gaza itself where will they go you'll push them into the Sinai desert for instance Egypt doesn't want that Egypt
31:29
is not interested in that because that is going to pressure Egypt to crack down on the Palestinians a very bad look um
31:37
otherwise they'll have to cut the peace deal they have with Israel if there are Palestinians in Sinai that want to
31:43
conduct operations against um the Israelis it's going to put Egypt Egypt
31:48
doesn't want to be put in that position there is no victory for Israel here you know I've tried to game out Brian all
31:56
the different scenarios you know I've sat with my notebook saying okay this is if this happens what happens we're
32:02
talking 2 million Palestinians most of them uh young people uh very angry very
32:10
upset they are radicalized in a way that the Israelis will not be able to understand I mean I was at a interview
32:18
with Khaled mishal of Hamas in in in in dohaqatar Mr Khaled Michelle made a very
32:25
straightforward statement this is a about 12 years ago Mr Khaled mishel said you know those people who demonize Hamas
32:33
they don't know what kinds of political views are germinating in the camps and
32:39
small towns of Gaza there are people far to the right of us far more dangerous
32:45
than us that's khalit mishal the leader of Hamas what he was trying to indicate is that in fact uh the frustrations
32:53
among young people are taking them into directions that the Israelis probably
32:58
know about and might even welcome Brian because that will increase their own
33:04
pretext for much more genocidal activity I think people need to understand that there is no way for the Israelis to win
33:12
unless they cotan could complete the genocide the Biden Administration is in
33:17
fact you know shoulder deep in the blood of Palestinians in this in this war
33:23
cannot extricate itself himself Mr Biden travels around the United States
33:28
everywhere he goes he gets heckled by people in the crowd calling him genocide
33:33
Joe calling you know calling for a seize F in Gaza I mean if Mr Biden even hopes
33:40
to have a chance at re-election uh against perhaps Donald Trump he's going
33:45
to and his team are going to reflect deeply on how their geopolitical
33:50
strategy is going to bring down um their possibility of re-election I think
33:55
already has has brought brought curtains to it um they have no exit strategy Mr
34:00
Anthony blinkin secretary of state looks more and more Haggard Brian every time I
34:06
see him on television he looks more destroyed and devastated I don't think he knows what's going on um you know the
34:13
fact that the United States bombed Yemen repeatedly now second time in fact a
34:19
very large attack 87 strikes um this the fact that United States with Britain
34:25
attacked Yemen show their absolute cluelessness about what's happening in
34:31
the region they have no idea what they're doing and as a situation like this unfolds and they have no idea they
34:38
go to what they know which is attack which is violence they don't have any
34:43
way of understanding the politics of what they're doing hence Afghanistan Iraq and Libya and now of course um they
34:51
are entering this conflict in Yemen and I I would say to the people in the United States you're making a big
34:57
mistake do not enter this conflict once again you already entered it on the backs of the Saudis and the Saudis are
35:05
desperately trying to find a way to get out of that conflict because in many ways they have been
35:12
defeated you uh VJ when President Obama announced the the desire to Pivot to
35:20
Asia back in 2011 I think he represented a faction within the US ruling class
35:27
establishment that was thinking geost strategically uh let's not be bogged
35:33
down in endless war in the Middle East because we keep fighting these losing
35:39
battles Middle East and South Asia in the case of Afghanistan we're we're fighting these losing battles and it's
35:47
taking trillions of dollars and lots of life and we're getting nothing out of it
35:54
there's no real there's no Colonial result that you know they're weakening
35:59
the region they're killing lots of people but killing people doesn't really
36:05
add up to a financial or political advantage to us imperialism and China was Rising quote
36:13
peacefully it didn't have America on its back now we know what the pivot to Asia
36:19
means we didn't know exactly what it meant in 2011 some of us thought we knew what it meant and maybe we were right
36:26
but it meant turning the US Military and enormous economic and
36:32
political pressure on China to quote contain China slow down China's growth
36:37
because the US views China's development as a losing uh part of a losing equation
36:44
uh a sort of a zero sum game because if China Rises the US Empire thinks it's at
36:50
the dimunition of America and perhaps from the point of view of imperialism not from the point of view of the
36:56
American people maybe it does diminish the power of the Empire but here we are
37:01
VJ in 2024 you know 13 years after the pivot
37:07
to Asia and the US and its foreign policy establishment and the military
37:13
bogg down again because this is Israel's war but it's really America's War I mean
37:19
Israel could not actually do what it's doing without America's full engagement
37:24
so you're talking about Hu arrogance geostrategic mistakes lack of
37:30
accountability failed policies but absent sort of punishment
37:38
absent somebody being held to account the same players make the same mistakes
37:43
over and over again and again it's human beings in the targeted countries that pay the real price but from the point of
37:50
view of us Empire it's a losing battle too I mean it's a really it's it's it
37:56
really shows in a way how arrogance and huous are really a vital enemy of the US
38:04
Empire but lack of accountability by those who demonstrate arrogance and huus
38:10
and thus make one mistake after another it doesn't stop it says a lot Brian about also the
38:18
information order in in the West in general not just in the United States
38:23
you know I looked at polling data recently and in the United States majorities of people want to ceasefire
38:30
in Gaza majorities of people think that the United States is spending too much
38:36
money in Ukraine those are sane opinions um the
38:42
ruling Elites and the government are not there with the public on these issues you know um this is Pew uh type polling
38:52
you know so it has some legitimacy there are people saying we want a cease fire majorities of people and saying we don't
38:58
want to spend all this money 44% of Democrats in fact saying that too much money is going to Ukraine um 67% of
39:07
Republicans so on these two issues the people have developed I don't know from
39:13
what perhaps the protests in New York City which um the mayor and others seem
39:18
to be so bent out of shape about those protests are having an impact and the New York Post can't write enough
39:25
articles to change people's minds because people are disheartened by what they seeing in in Gaza on the other hand
39:32
polling data also shows that a majority of people wouldn't mind the United
39:38
States going to war with China I find that very interesting that why is that
39:43
the case and that's the failure in a way of the information order um shouldn't
39:49
there be some reporting in the New York Times in the Washington Post saying look
39:55
frankly it's it's a bad idea for the United States to go to war with China why China is a very large country 1.4
40:02
billion people um the Chinese have a very strong military to defend their borders they have nuclear weapons they
40:09
have missiles it's a very stupid idea and they would also defend themselves
40:14
they are not willing to allow themselves you know to be bombed and they'll take it silently um I'm surprised in a way by
40:23
the irrationalism of the high media Elites in the United States that they are not
40:28
even trying to enter into a discussion and debate with the general public saying this is a terrible idea China is
40:35
not going to be like um you know what you'd imagine let's say missile strikes against Sudan when Bill Clinton launched
40:43
them you know against Kum um on the street where my my uncle actually lived
40:49
was struck by by that missile in in Kum in 1998 you know China will retaliate in
40:55
fact you want a measure of what might happen if you attack a Chinese City look
41:01
at what the yemenis are doing I mean Yemen for instance coming back to Yemen Brian Yemen um attacked by Saudi Arabia
41:10
in 2015 why were they attacked by Saudi Arabia because a popular movement from
41:16
the north of Yemen bordering the uh Saudi uh yemeni border decided to lead a
41:23
big March from their part of the country in yen to S the capital now these people
41:29
who marched uh mostly from the huti tribe they are not hutis by the way this
41:34
is the zadii Islam movement they they have a political movement called ansar Allah they are zadii Shia people should
41:42
know that the zadii Shia used to once rule Yemen um around and you know they
41:48
defeated the Ottomans just before the British colonial Elite took over Southern Yemen in 1839 zi Shia
41:56
have a very long history of being rulers in Yemen anyway the huti tribe they are
42:02
zi Shi they marched to saana and they led a big national movement against
42:08
inflation against the destruction of the country and overthrew a government the
42:13
Hadi government which was sitting in a move and pic Hotel people may not know move and pic mve andp is a festar hotel
42:21
they spent two years in this move and pick Hotel trying to create some national Recon ilation plan well the
42:28
zadii Shia led by this movement called ansar Allah decided forget it we're not
42:33
going to sit around in some hotel and for two years discuss this while people are starving we're just going to march
42:39
to sa and they took over the government um the Saudis did not like that started a war that war has been going since 2015
42:46
till today almost N9 years that war has been going saies mercilessly bombed the
42:52
country destroyed the infrastructure destroyed uh the the port attacked the
42:57
roads you know made it very hard to survive the yemenis have survived not only have they survived they fought back
43:04
they defeated Saudi Arabia now when this war genocidal War took place is taking
43:11
place in Gaza the the Anar Allah movement and the yemeni government said we are not going to allow particularly
43:17
ships with Israeli Flags but any ship that is um you know providing supplies
43:22
to Israel not going to be allowed to get through our Waters and they start attacking them United States says we're
43:28
going to bomb you let me ask the US planners a question from your show Brian let me ask Lloyd Austin have you studied
43:36
what ansar Allah and the yemeni people went through against the Saudis do you think they are going to be deterred by
43:42
half a dozen cruise missiles do you think they care they have fortified themselves to battle against Relentless
43:49
Sai bombardment these things that they are doing which are killing yemeni civilians by the way are not not going
43:56
to impact what's happening in Yemen they are going to keep fighting if you want to understand what it's going to mean to
44:03
go to war against China Study the yemenis the yemenis are united to defend
44:08
their country against any and every attack including by the British I mean the British disgraceful Britain
44:15
colonized Yemen from 1838 till 1962 it's a disgrace that they feel that they have
44:22
the right to bomb Yemen again it's disgraceful Rish sunak should be ashamed of himself for that the yemenis aren't
44:30
going to back down because of somebody has come and picked them with a pin they have faced much worse from the Saudis
44:36
and that's a good place for Lloyd Austin and others to study and for the editors of the New York Times to study what it
44:43
might mean if the US thinks it can go and attack China the Chinese are not going to be subordinated this is not
44:50
Sudan 1998 they are going to fight back they're going to defend their borders um
44:56
so I mean there needs to be when I use terms like hubis and so on Brian there
45:01
needs to be some reflection in the United States in the upper reaches some sanity needs to be there
45:09
and I think we as people who are interested in bringing some sort of sensitivity and rationality into the
45:16
public discourse we are trying to play our role but look the moment we try to play our role they malign us you know
45:23
they say you are this that and the other thing look let's have a conversation why do you feel the need to malign um us
45:30
rather than have a conversation with us I mean I thought these people are supposed to be democratically
45:37
minded well I'm glad you mentioned Yen if we had a a a image of the map of the
45:43
Middle East where we could show Yemen I would love to have it because Yemen when you compare it to Gaza is very big uh
45:53
and it's a huge area and the and the struggle between the Yemen people and
45:58
the Saudis created a military infrastructure like Gaza which is
46:04
largely underground I mean the tunnel structure that the Israelis have so much
46:09
trouble penetrating in Gaza I mean that's small compared to what the yemeni
46:15
resistance forces have developed over these last years and you're right VJ I
46:21
mean US Special Operation Forces were on the ground in
46:26
Yemen and they were giving the bombing coordinates to the Saudi military to the
46:32
Air Force the Saudi Air Force so that they could drop thousands of bombs and missiles on the people of Yemen and they
46:39
did not persevere they did not win so you had the US I mean this is the irony
46:44
of the situation George W bush bombed Yemen Obama bombed
46:50
Yemen Trump bombed Yemen now Biden is bombing Yemen and what's the con what's
46:56
the result on American TV people are talking about how Yemen is a terrorist
47:01
entity like really I mean if you drop thousands of bombs and support the
47:07
bombing of a country by in this case Saudi Arabia and you do that for that
47:12
long four consecutive presidents have been bombing Yemen but Yemen is the terrorist I mean it shows the absurdity
47:20
of the narrative I mean it's the same with Cuba I mean Cuba which is a victim of American uh terrorism is on the
47:28
terrorist list because Trump decided to end Obama's policy of semi-normal
47:33
isation by putting Cuba back on the terrorism list and Biden continued Trump's policy rather than going back to
47:40
Obama's policy but my point is that the narrative about terrorism and who's to
47:46
blame and who's responsible it has an impact for a while on the American
47:52
people because the mainstream media is this faith Echo chamber repeating all of
47:58
this obvious nonsense as if because it's repetition and done over and over and
48:04
over again some part of the population will believe it must be true the yemenis must be terrorists because every TV
48:10
station they turn on says they are but then the people of the world who are not
48:16
watching MSNBC or CNN they look at this and they know completely completely what
48:22
the deal is they know the deal anyway I think that as you're saying Israel can't
48:29
win but us imperialism because there is no rationality there is no reasonableness in this policy military
48:36
and foreign policy it can't win either but it can do a lot a lot of damage um I
48:44
wan to I want to talk a little we have a a clip about I want to spend a moment or
48:49
two on the narrative issue there was a debate in the UN between the South African foreign minister
48:56
and the Israeli Ambassador about the beheading by Hamas allegedly of babies
49:02
in Israel now we all know that that turned out to be completely untrue I want to play the clip and I want to talk
49:08
to you though because if you talk take a poll among large parts of the American people they'll think yeah Hamas
49:15
terrorist uh they beheaded babies it's all true anyway this fight about narrative is so politically important
49:23
that's why the protest matter that's why independent alternative Media Matters that's why trian matters anyway let's
49:30
play this clip and then I want to get your thoughts did I hear you correctly saying that the atrocities that we are
49:37
speaking about the beheading of children that those are fake news that it's not true is that the position of the South
49:43
African government I want to ask you now you no it is evidence that has been
49:49
provided by a range of non-governmental organizations both in Israel and Palestine because we don't only speak to
49:57
Palestinians we speak to peace-loving Israelis as well and we know that there's a lot of fake news that attempts
50:04
to cast Palestinians in a bad light and it has been admitted even from the White
50:10
House spokesperson that that statement that was made at the highest level was
50:16
actually proven not to be factual so honorable member I've responded to your
50:21
question and it's important as I said at the start of my
50:28
contribution that when we speak on these matters let us speak being honest and
50:37
factual you know the South Africans BJ they went to the icj the UN highest
50:43
judicial court but there is this other court the court of world public opinion
50:49
which as a socialist as a Marxist ultimately if you believe that people
50:55
may history that the class struggle is the motor force and by class struggle I
51:00
mean the struggle against imperialism is a motor Force for change this other
51:05
court the court of public opinion is perhaps even more important than any
51:11
other legal court and the South Africans when they have been making these
51:17
arguments so well so with such eloquence and basing it on Truth they
51:24
have garnered the support of the global South 61 countries and all
51:30
of them are in the global South none of them are NATO members have signed on to
51:35
support the South African claim yeah I mean firstly um the foreign
51:41
minister of South Africa nidi pandor herself is a person of great integrity
51:47
and the way she handles questions like that is really to be commended um these
51:52
are heroes of our time you know who are Brave and willing to stand up the fight
51:58
over narrative as you put it is extremely important and if I may let's
52:03
go back to the Yemen issue for a moment um you know the way in which people talk
52:08
about what's happening in Yemen um the kind of callousness there's so much
52:14
forgetting what's forgotten for instance is that the United States government in
52:19
fact um through various forms of drone strike and air strike assassinated not
52:25
only a number of yemenis lists are available not only were the yemeni
52:30
teenagers sitting in Guantanamo but the United States government LED at the time
52:36
by Barack Obama actually killed US citizens in Yemen who they said were
52:43
terrorists there was no due process for them I'm talking about first Anar Al
52:48
alaki who was a cleric from the United States in Yemen um you know he himself
52:55
was was admitted that he was participating in violent activities but there was no due process he was killed
53:00
okay now one could say well he himself admitted and so on but was there a need
53:06
to kill 16-year-old Abdul Rahman alaki his son on a subsequent drone strike a
53:12
16-year-old US citizen was killed in Yemen was there any need for that no
53:18
accountability by the way for the murder of a 16-year-old US citizen in Yemen who
53:24
had no connection to alqaeda or any group no accountability it's almost as if the
53:32
narrative sees Yemen as a place for target practice even the use of the word
53:37
hooti I think is very objectionable in my opinion as I said before the AL hutis
53:43
are a tribe from the northern part of Yemen the government in charge is led by
53:49
political party called an Allah to say oh they are the hooes and the htis are terrorists is very much objectionable to
53:56
me because the hutis is a name of a of a tribe it's a community name um you can't
54:02
you know they depoliticize what's happening in Yemen and make it some sort of
54:08
ahistorical um you know entity called the hooes which are somehow related to Iran and uh um and uh therefore
54:16
terrorists firstly it's important for people as I said to understand that the AL Z shake that came to Yemen in the
54:24
year 800 long proceeds even the arrival of Islam in Iran okay they have a
54:31
history that is their own history they have built their own movements they have built their own political formation
54:38
called ansar Allah they are not proxies of Iran to call Hezbollah for instance a
54:44
proxy of Iran is to misunderstand the politics of Southern Lebanon to
54:50
misunderstand what the great um the Green Mountains of Lebanon have produced
54:55
it's a long history again predates um you know even the formation of of of of
55:01
of the Persian Empires transfer into Islam and certainly long predates the
55:07
creation of the Islamic Republic in 1979 so this is all about the narrative you
55:13
know the way Loosely New York Times will say well you know the hooes in in Yemen
55:19
wait a minute do you mean to say that this tribal Confederacy in the north of Yemen on the border of South Arabia are
55:25
all condemned to being terrorists therefore Open Seas and kill them all there is a kind of laxity uh of mind
55:34
that suggests for instance the hutis are terrorists all Shia are terrorists and so on I I find this very objectionable
55:41
because it feeds exactly what you said the narrative that somehow it's target
55:46
practice against Yemen because they are run by the hoties the hooes are terrorists and so on you know Edward S
55:53
in his terrific book called covering Islam said that one way for journalists to prevent being
55:59
orientalists his understanding of orientalism meaning to treat the Orient as a place of no history no politics and
56:06
so on he said is to emphasize the detail the detail is a very good antidote to
56:13
the flattening of a region you know there are politics in Palestine there are political actors political
56:20
differences there's a reason why the Israelis for instance have been putting
56:26
the entire Palestinian left in prison why leadership of the democratic front
56:32
for the liberation of Palestine PE the popular front for the liberation of Palestine khalida jarar or the People's
56:39
Party of Palestine the youth movement are targeted by the Israelis they want to remove the left from active um you
56:47
know Palestinian politics and then say Well only Palestinian leadership is Hamas therefore Hamas is a terrorist
56:53
Palestinians are terrorist this is what the Israeli political scientist Baruch kimling called politicide and it's the
57:01
same thing that operates regarding for instance Yemen there's a politicide
57:06
there is a complete Erasure of the actual details of fabric of politics in
57:12
Yemen and so it's let's treat these parts of the world as target practice
57:18
let's just allow the Israelis to bomb Gaza give them a green light let's allow
57:23
the United States and Britain to bomb Yemen because it's target practice against these parts of the world the
57:30
whole part that is terrorist it's a very much like how the New York Times talks about the southern part of Beirut by
57:36
calling it a Hezbollah stronghold um therefore you can just bomb the whole of of the D region of of Beirut you can
57:44
bomb all the Palestinians in Gaza you can bomb all the yemenis in
57:50
Yemen as we move towards the end VJ I want to stick with the topic of narrative
57:58
because ignorance is sort of a necessary element for imperialism to spoon feed a
58:07
false narrative you have to not know the history of Yemen not know the history of
58:12
Iran not know the history of Lebanon in order to allow yourself to be deceived
58:19
by imperialist Propaganda and that's what it is it's imperialist propaganda
58:24
it's designed to make people hate the yemenis by calling them houthis and
58:30
calling them terrorists call the Palestinians and Hamas terrorists um you
58:35
know all of these tools these tools that require ignorance if you actually knew
58:42
for instance if the American people knew what was actually going on in Iraq between
58:48
1991 in 2003 people would not have believed and could not have believed
58:54
that Iraq was a powerful military Menace possessing weapons of mass destruction
59:00
you couldn't think that if you actually knew that history so ignorance is a
59:05
requirement and one of the things that your work is so important in completing
59:10
is filling out for people historical information and perspective as a counter
59:17
to an enforced Ignorance by an imperialist propaganda machine that relies on people not knowing I want to
59:25
go I'm I'm saying this to set up what's going on the history of Gaza real quick towards the end Gaza
59:34
itself is an Israeli invention Gaza itself there was no Gaza Strip before
59:44
1948 uh you know it was during the knba during the expulsion of the Palestinian
59:50
people by the colonial project by the Zionist forces operating with the support of the US and the UK driving out
59:58
hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their from their lands and you know
1:00:03
Jordan and Lebanon and Syria accepted some of the Palestinians who are being
1:00:09
driven from their Villages and they set up refugee camps and Egypt said no to
1:00:16
that Egypt did not take the people in that part of historic Palestine who are
1:00:21
being driven out so the Israeli establishment decided that they were going to take 2% of
1:00:28
Palestine and create the Gaza Strip in order to drive some parts of the
1:00:34
Palestinian population there to be occupied and surrounded in the Gaza
1:00:40
Strip because Egypt said no they wouldn't take the refugees so Israel creates the Gaza Strip Gaza City existed
1:00:49
for a long time it was a major city an important city now
1:00:55
Ilan Pape the Israeli historian has written and recently in
1:01:01
many interviews talked about something called order number 40 order number 40
1:01:07
which people can find in the Israeli archives was an order from the Central Command of the Israeli forces in 1948 in
1:01:16
November 1948 instructing Regional commanders in
1:01:22
that part of is in that part of Palestine to blow up 11 villages to blow up or
1:01:28
burn down 11 Villages and they are the villages that are on the other side of the wall of what is now called the Gaza
1:01:35
Strip those were the areas that became then the site of Israeli settlements so
1:01:41
when Hamas carried out the October 7th attack they were actually going into the
1:01:47
areas that had been burned down and blown up by order number 40 to force
1:01:53
those last Palestinians out of that part of historic Palestine and into this newly Israeli created thing called the
1:02:00
Gaza Strip I'm saying this because here we are 75 years later now 76 years
1:02:08
later the young the grandfathers the grandmothers the parents now the
1:02:13
grandchildren they were right on the other side of the wall where the Israelis under and
1:02:20
through order number 40 burned down their homes some of the homes were stoned that's why
1:02:26
they had to be blown up rather than burned down and so for three generations you
1:02:32
could see you could look and see this area and say that was our homes we they
1:02:38
were destroyed they were burned down and when the Israelis and I mean
1:02:43
when the Palestinians in Gaza had the great March of return in 2018 they went to the wall and they said we have a
1:02:49
right to return and they were pointing not far away they were pointing right over the wall W towards those 11
1:02:57
Villages that were burned down by order number 40 and when they came to the
1:03:02
great March and return of return peaceful nonviolent protests they were
1:03:08
shot down by Israeli snipers who treated them as target practice so then you have a few years
1:03:16
later in 2023 6 years later and five years later it's not a peaceful protest
1:03:22
it's an armed incursion into the same area that was destroyed by order number 40 and then the American Media says Ah
1:03:30
see Hamas is terrorist but if you know this history if you're not completely
1:03:36
ignorant of this history then the narrative doesn't fly and that's I want
1:03:42
to I want to as we I'm going to give you the final word on this because I think
1:03:47
that us our movement our Anti-Imperialist movement providing the information perspective and historical
1:03:54
knowledge is key and crucial to winning over the people of this country because
1:04:00
ultimately if you believe as a Marxist as I do that people make history they
1:04:05
need the information the arguments the history the perspective so that they can
1:04:10
fight and actually fight against those who are oppressing them or oppressing others in their name go
1:04:17
ahead well you know so much of of world history in the last 70 years since uh
1:04:24
the end of second world war has been the struggles by people who had been
1:04:29
colonized to win some space for themselves in the world to democratize the world system part of that is for
1:04:37
people to demand their Humanity you know demand their right to be human well one
1:04:42
of the ways to be human is to demand your right to history to demand your right to a place in history um you know
1:04:49
you erase the humanity of a person by saying that your understanding ing of your history in fact your place in
1:04:56
history is irrelevant you are a bystander and the Palestinians have fought through that entire period since
1:05:02
the world war to ended to fight for their right to history their existence
1:05:07
as a people even their name Palestinian as a legitimate name uh their right to
1:05:13
land uh you know these things are fundamental their right to existence to
1:05:19
be there and therefore their right to be human I mean you can't um surrender or
1:05:26
or break apart the idea of humanity from the idea of History you have to have a
1:05:31
right to your history and the Palestinians are being denied that right uh they are being told that history
1:05:38
starts every time they fire a gun October 7th there is no history before
1:05:43
that um and this fight to demand a history is a fight to make the conflict
1:05:49
come into its own meaning this is not something that the Palestinian I are imposing on the Israelis this is
1:05:56
something that the British imperialists and European Jews who came from Europe
1:06:02
victims of the Holocaust of family members victims of the Holocaust they were imposed on this region by British
1:06:10
imperialism by Europe unwilling to come to terms with its own role in a long
1:06:17
history of anti-Semitism the Holocaust did not happen um in the Arab lands the
1:06:24
Holocaust did not happen in Palestine the Holocaust happened in Germany in Eastern Europe Europe has to come to
1:06:31
terms with its own actual anti-semitic history um they should not impose the
1:06:37
idea of anti-Semitism on people who are merely fighting for the right to be human um anti-Semitism is a European
1:06:45
problem of course other people adopt all kinds of European problems and become anti-semites but anti-Semitism didn't
1:06:53
emerge first in Jerusalem it didn't emerge in Gaza City it didn't emerge in
1:06:58
haa it emerged in Europe and this is a European problem a fight for a history
1:07:04
Brian is also a fight to talk with some forthrightness about what we're dealing
1:07:10
with here this is not an Israel Palestine conflict this is a conflict
1:07:15
that has been imposed upon the Palestinian people the Muslim Palestinian people the Christian
1:07:22
Palestinian people and the Jewish Palestinian people who predated the
1:07:27
arrival of Europeans fleeing from European anti-Semitism that is part of
1:07:33
the history The Narrative that we have to fight for in order to fight for the
1:07:39
rightful Humanity of all the Palestinian people all of the humanity denied not
1:07:45
only by the mass killings in Gaza but the humanity even denied by the
1:07:51
histories that are told about them VJ um how can people find tricontinental
1:07:58
Institute for social research uh how can they subscribe how can they get your Works you're a prolific author of many
1:08:05
books but tricontinental Institute is providing information on an almost weekly basis or even more frequently how
1:08:12
can they how can they find the Institute well it's a very long um URL
1:08:18
for the website but it effectively is th tricontinental dog just follow my lips
1:08:24
th tricontinental dorg go there you can subscribe read the material we're very
1:08:30
happy for you to be part of our world thanks a lot for that Brian okay and there it is people can watch it at the
1:08:37
bottom of the screen uh to subscribe to vj's work uh tricontinental Institute
1:08:42
for social research VJ Pasad thank you so much thanks a lot
1:08:52
brand
Kommentare